Will: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Passle CMO Series Podcast. My name is Will Eke, I'm an SVP here at Passle, and today we are going to be talking about rethinking client strategy and how do you rethink that to drive real revenue. So for most, especially large law firms, a small proportion of clients normally drive the vast majority of revenue, yet sometimes BD efforts are still spread thinly across the board. This episode today we're gonna be talking to, very excited to have Rob Gijsen, who's the Chief Marketing Officer at CMS, on the podcast. Welcome, Rob. 

Rob: Hello. Thanks for having me. 

Will: Now, Rob has spent nearly, I'm sorry to bring this up, Rob, you've spent nearly three decades in senior BD marketing roles at some of the world's largest firms. And particularly in the last year, we're gonna hone in on how Rob has spent the last year doing many things, but one of the big projects has been rolling out a client and sector strategy at CMS. We'll come into the more details on it, but it's really fundamentally changed how the firm can now prioritize and manage the most important relationships, i.e., the key clients. 

We're gonna be talking about the thinking that's gone into that, the implementation of the strategy and what that looks like, especially at a firm of CMS's size and scale. And hopefully there'll be some takeaways in terms of how other leaders, who are thinking about doing the same, can actually action a big project like this. 

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Will: So Rob, great to have you on, as we've said. I think we'll start, if it's okay, I mentioned it right at the outset. You've been at some of the biggest firms in professional services for over three decades now. How has your thinking over that time in terms of client strategy evolved? 

Rob: When I first started out in law firm marketing, client strategy in law firms wasn't really a thing, at least not in any formal sense. Law firms grew because they did good work and because individual partners had strong personal relationships with their clients. So the idea was pretty simple. You looked after your clients, you did excellent work, and the next piece of work would probably follow. And to be fair, that worked well for law firms for a long time. But over the years, the market became much more competitive, clients became much more sophisticated in how they bought legal services, and the first key account management program started to emerge. And I think it was at that point it became increasingly clear to me that the firms that were doing really well, the ones that were growing profitably and sustainably, were the firms that treated their client relationships as institutional assets rather than something owned by one individual partner. 

And I think as law firms get bigger, client relationships work best when they're shared and not reliant on any one individual, and that means that you need to be clear about which clients are genuinely strategic, where the real growth opportunities are, and how the firm should bring its resources to bear in a focused and disciplined way. And I think in pretty much every firm I've worked in, as you said earlier, a relatively small number of clients generated the vast majority of revenue. And here at CMS, for example, we analyzed our client base over a three-year period, and we found that although we acted for around 15,000 clients, fewer than 1,500 of them, so less than 10%, accounted for 80% of revenue. 

And when a relatively small group of clients is driving most of the value, I think it's a signal that you need to be more intentional about where you focus your time, energy, and investment. You simply can't treat every client in exactly the same way and still expect to grow. Sustainable growth comes from making thoughtful choices about where to focus, while still delivering a great service to every client. But of course, anyone who works in law firm BD knows that a good idea on its own is never enough to bring about change, and the biggest driver of change isn't the idea itself, but the consistency and visibility of leadership support behind it. If the senior management team doesn't back you visibly and consistently, it's not gonna work, and I'm really lucky at CMS that that is very much the case. The firm has set itself the ambition to become the leading relationship law firm, and clients are, of course, right at the heart of that vision. 

Will: You make it sound so easy as well in terms of how you've done that. I suppose we talked about this before, but getting that leadership is so, so important. And actually, if that's the end goal to become the leading relationship firm, everyone's gonna buy into that. Can you delve into maybe a bit more about, so you've looked at the clients, you've done that 10/80% split. How did you categorize clients, and was there a framework that you came up with in terms of that leadership team to then build upon? 

Rob: Yes, the whole strategy really started with the ambition to become the leading relationship law firm, and at the heart of that was a simple idea. We wanted to build better, stronger, and deeper relationships with our clients. So the question then became, how do we do that in a sensible and disciplined way? And the obvious place to start was by looking properly at our client base. 

So like I said earlier, we analyzed three years' worth of data, and we grouped our clients into five distinct categories based on average annual revenue. So at one end, sort of, our largest clients were generating average fees in the multi-millions of pounds every year, and at the other end, our smallest clients were bringing in just a few thousand pounds each year. And in most cases, these were one-off clients with very little potential for future growth. And that created a real challenge because we had thousands of those smaller clients each year, and collectively, they accounted for only about 5% of total revenue, but they still took up a lot of administrative time, cost, and partner attention. 

So when we defined the client categories, we didn't just look at revenue, we also looked at profitability, share of wallet, and importantly, what each client's value orientation was. And what I mean by that is that we broadly saw three types of clients: clients who really value a mutually beneficial relationship, clients who are primarily focused on quality and service, and clients who are mainly driven by price. So by combining those five revenue categories with what the client values, we created what we call our client investment framework. So in simple terms, it's a matrix that helps us decide where to invest, where to nurture relationships, and where we may need to simplify the way we work, or in some cases, step back. 

The problem we were trying to solve was really about resource allocation. Our analysis showed that the chances of a small client that generates just a few thousand pounds in revenue becoming a major client are statistically less than 1%. So put simply, if a client is going to be big, they are usually big from the start. But we found that we were spending millions of pounds worth of time pursuing smaller clients that didn't have much potential to grow into profitable long-term relationships. And meanwhile, some of our most important client relationships weren't getting the structured attention that they really deserved. So our strategy aims to grow and strengthen our relationships with our most important clients, so those relationships become more institutional, rather than sitting with just one or two individuals, and to become more considered in the way we pursue new clients. 

So at its core, I think client strategy is really about clarity. It's about understanding where the greatest opportunities are, and then putting the right focus, support, and investment behind them. And I should say, like most other law firms, we've had a key account management program for many years, but what's different now is that we are approaching it more at scale. So we're looking at broad categories of clients, thinking more deliberately about how we work with each group, and being much clearer about where we should spend our time.

Will: Yeah, it's fascinating that you say that, Rob, as well because then of course you can see which clients are then worth the while trying to move them up maybe that framework, as you say, some of them are just never gonna get to where you want them to get to, so it's not worth, not wasting that time, but investing that time. Difficult to implement, I imagine. You say you've got the framework, you've got the structure in place, how and what does that actually look like, especially, I suppose, on the ground at a firm of CMS's size? 

Rob: Yes, implementation touched almost every part of the business, so I won't go into too much detail about all of it. But I'll talk you through the main elements, which include communications, client planning, connecting client relationship partners to the relevant sector teams, and shifting the focus of the BD team. So starting with communications, that was obviously a big part of the rollout. We launched the strategy through a series of partner calls, town halls, partner drop-in sessions, all led by the senior partner. And we also put together a background note explaining why we were doing this, shared it across the firm, and created an FAQ document to deal with the questions we thought people were most likely to have. On top of that, we offered to join practice group meetings so we could explain the thinking in person and answer any questions directly. But, you know, as is always the case with communications, there's always, we could have done more, and you can't pass on the message often enough. 

The second element was client planning. We introduced a new planning process for our largest clients, so we ran some briefing sessions for client relationship partners over the summer last year, and we grouped clients into two categories. Some were called growth clients, where the focus is on increasing revenue and winning a larger share of their legal spend, and others were improve clients, where the first priority was to improve the profitability of the account. And so the BD team leads on the growth clients, and the commercial finance team leads on the improve clients. And over the autumn, we then build around 120 client plans, which are now available to everyone through the intranet, and each plan gives people a clear roadmap for that particular client relationship. 

We're also focusing on connecting the client relationship partners of our largest clients to the teams leading the sectors those clients are in. So from a governance perspective, our sector leaders play an important role in bringing together client relationship partners from similar clients and talking to them about key trends in the sector that will be of relevance to their clients and also commenting on their client plans. They also play a key role in maintaining momentum and regularly updating the management team on progress in relation to their sector clients. And then one of the more challenging aspects of implementing the strategy is, uh, achieving a pretty fundamental shift in the focus of the BD team, and I would say that that is still very much a work in progress. 

Historically, the team has spent about 80% of its time on activities that are aimed at winning new clients and new work. So, think about things like pitches, events, seminars, sponsorships, and so on. And the challenge was that a lot of that work was quite transactional. It might bring in a new matter, but often there wasn't much scope to develop the client further. So what we're trying to do now is shift BD's main focus towards supporting the client relationship partners for our biggest clients, and that means helping them manage the account where possible, generate more work, and build better data and intelligence around the relationship. 

So we've developed a clear workflow covering everything from setting up the client team and the right infrastructure, through to gathering intelligence, creating the client plan, and then measuring and reporting on progress. But as you can imagine, that has probably been the hardest part. It is easy enough to say that BD should focus more on client development, but the day-to-day work doesn't disappear. Pitches still need to happen. Directory submissions still need to be done. 

So to create more capacity, we have introduced some new tech tools, including a credentials gathering tool and a pitch builder tool, and the idea is to make the more routine work more efficient so the team has more time for higher value client development activity. And last but not least, another important piece was, sort of, upskilling our people. Most of the team in BD and commercial finance were not key account management specialists, so we invested quite a lot in training. We brought everyone together for a day and a half, and then followed that up with weekly training sessions on specific topics. And on top of that, we created some detailed guidance notes and spent time reviewing and critiquing their draft client plans.

Will: It sounds like an immense amount of work and probably quite a big shift, especially for, as you said, the client relationship partners, partners in general, the business development team. So, there must have been a certain response to some of this change. Were there any sort of real roadblocks that stuck out in terms of change? 

Rob: Yes, as, as you'd expect, the reaction at first was a bit mixed. I think that's completely normal with a change of this magnitude. I think people generally understood the thinking behind the strategy, and they could see the evidence, which, you know, on the face of it is hard to argue with. But some people were worried about what it would mean for them personally and for their clients. By way of example, a lot of the clients in the top two revenue categories that I mentioned are based in London, so some partners outside London were asking in effect, "Well, where does that leave me?", and that was a fair challenge. You do need some flexibility. 

There has to be room for clients who may be a bit smaller overall, but who really matter to a particular region or country or office. And so we've built that in as well, and we also give priority attention to clients that are especially important locally. Again, it's about being clear about the clients you want to develop. Overall, the engagement from client relationship partners has been really positive, I think. Many of them were pleased to get a bit more BD support with developing their client relationships than perhaps they'd had before, and they can see the value of having a more structured, supported approach to their most important client relationships. 

Where it's been a little bit more challenging is probably with the wider client teams. So, getting the broader team beyond just a client relationship partner properly involved in planning is still something we need to improve. People work together very well on actual client engagements, but that now needs to extend to the planning process as well, so that we take a holistic view of opportunities. And to help with that, we're developing a bespoke client relationship partner and client team development program. The other big hurdle was, and still is, pushing back on partner requests to business development. We knew we didn't have the resources to both keep doing all of the existing business as usual work and deliver the new strategy properly. 

So we sometimes have to make tough choices, which are not always well received. And I think that many on the team, on the one hand enjoy being involved in client development activity, but on the other hand also feel that we've not yet taken away enough of the other work. And as a final comment, I would say one important message you've kept coming back to is that the client categorization should help guide decision-making, but it shouldn't be followed blindly. If a client that hasn't historically generated much revenue comes to us with a sizeable transaction, then of course that may well be worth pursuing. So, the framework is there to guide how we allocate resources, but it doesn't replace commercial judgment.

Will: You talked earlier, Rob, actually about having, so you've got the framework, but you've also got dashboards to track certain things. I know it's quite early days, obviously you don't need to share everything because it's probably not, I don't know if those numbers have come to fruition yet, but is there something you can tell our audience around the results and what you're currently measuring to make sure everything is working correctly? 

Rob: Yeah. The early signs are really encouraging. The strategy is doing exactly what we hoped it would do, helping us build better, stronger, and deeper relationships with our clients and supporting our ambition to become the leading relationship law firm. And although we launched the strategy partway through the fiscal year, the first full year of data is already pointing in the right direction. Revenue from our top category of clients was up 16%. The number of clients in that category increased by 15%, and their share of total firm fees also grew. So taken together, it feels as though a more focused approach is really helping us build broader and deeper relationships with the clients who matter most. We're also seeing a real shift in the quality of our engagement. Our senior partner has completed nearly 100 client visits. 

We've created more than 120 client plans, and we've started to make client feedback a much more central part of how we manage our relationships. And to me, those are important signs of progress because they show that the strategy is starting to become part of how we listen to our clients, understand what they need, and support them better. And in terms of measuring progress, we now measure progress through a combination of relationship and financial indicators. So we look at client plans, client feedback, engagement levels, revenue growth, share of fees, and margin performance. But for me, the most important point is that the evidence so far is positive. We are investing more deliberately in the right relationships, we're having better conversations with clients, and we are seeing that translate into stronger, more sustainable outcomes.

Will: Yeah. Wow, that's huge tangible outcomes straight away, 16% revenue growth. Incredible. Rob, thank you so much for all of that amazing information and giving us a real insight into how you've built that framework. We're gonna start, if that's okay, with something nice and easy. What are you currently listening to? And that can be anything. Music, podcast, audiobook. 

Rob: Yeah. In the last week it's been Laufey, I think it's pronounced, the Icelandic singer.

Will: Oh, wow. Okay. I only know Leffe the beer. That's actually Leffe. Okay. I'll have to check that out. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

Rob: If everybody likes you, you are not doing your job properly. Sometimes you just need to take unpopular decisions because they are right for the firm. 

Will: Good advice. Thinking about the listeners, what book or resource would you recommend to anyone in a CMO or marketing BD role?

Rob: It's probably more generic, but I would recommend ‘How to Talk to AI and How Not To’ by Jamie Bartlett. 

Will: Brilliant. Another one I'm gonna be writing down. You're a busy man. What is your favorite way to unwind after a very busy day?

Rob: I usually try to go for a walk, but I'm also a big horse racing fan, so if the weather is bad I'm quite happy to catch up on my horse racing videos with a glass of wine in my hand. 

Will: Brilliant. There we go. What's your favorite place to visit, and why?

Rob: Chicago, because it's a great city. I have very fond memories of living there, and it's where a lot of my friends are. 

Will: I've still yet to go but I've got some colleagues in the US at Passle actually that tell me it's a brilliant city, so I do need to get over there, so thank you again, Rob, for that. Another person that's telling me to get there. Amazingly, it is the last question. It's gone so quickly. The last one I wanted to ask you really was if someone in a similar position or BD marketing teams within, you know, larger firms in law are trying to do something like this, where would they start? What's your best advice on how you start this? 

Rob: I would probably start with the data. Before you can make the case for change, you need to really understand your client base, where the revenue is coming from, which clients are profitable, where you've got room to grow, and how things have changed over a period of time. At CMS, we looked at three years' worth of data, and that became the foundation for everything that followed. When you can show that less than 10% of clients are generating 80% of revenue, then the case for focusing your investment becomes pretty hard to argue with. 

Second, I'd get some independent evidence to back you up. We brought in a third-party research company to look at what really drives success in client development for law firms. And their findings, particularly around collaborative teams and proper client plans, gave us credible external basis for the strategy. It's much harder for skeptics to push back against independent research than it is to push back against an internal proposal. And thirdly, once you've got the data, get leadership buy-in from the very top. Our strategy was launched by the senior partner and then reinforced through partner calls, town halls, and regular communications, and that really matters. It has to feel like a firm strategy, not something that is owned by business development. So we now include regular client stories in the senior partner updates. Partners talk about their client relationships on monthly partner calls, and that kind of visible leadership commitment is really essential. 

Next, I'd say invest in your team. We put the BD and commercial finance teams through intensive training and created practical guidance notes for every stage of client planning, and the quality of output improved significantly. So you can't ask people to work in a completely different way without giving them the skills and the tools they need to do it well. And then finally, measure and report on progress relentlessly. We track fees, margins, completion of client plans, client relationship partner engagements, and so on. And clear metrics will help you show progress, spot where more work is needed, and keep up momentum, and they also make sure there is accountability. But the most important thing though, I would say, is to just start. No strategy is going to be perfect on day one. Ours certainly wasn't. But after almost one year, the direction of travel is clearly positive, and we're confident that if we keep focused on disciplined execution, we'll see further progress. So I would say in closing, client strategy is really just disciplined investment, deciding where to double down, and then building the systems to back that up.

Will: Yeah, amazing. And I think the clients benefit as well, and it sounds like you've sort of really nailed collaboration, and it's just only one year in as well, Rob, so it's often the holy grail that many CMOs I speak to say. Thank you so much again for sharing all of that with our audience. Thanks for your time today. 

Rob: Thank you for having me. Thanks. 

Charlie: You can follow the Passle CMO Series Podcast on your preferred podcast platform. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.