Charlie: Welcome to CMO Series Represents, a platform for diversity, equity, and inclusion in professional services, marketing, and business development. Today, we continue our International Women's Day celebration with a bumper-packed edition full of insights from incredible women in the industry. They join us to share their perspectives on what's going to accelerate the pace of change when it comes to gender equality. CMO Series Represents is brought to you by Passle, the AI-powered thought leadership platform for professional services. Find out more and request a demo at passle.net. In part two, we're so excited to hear from leading voices in the industry. And our first cohort of guests join us to discuss the power of transparent paths to promotion and the role models who have shaped their careers.

Stefanie: And my name is Stephanie Nastou, and I am the CMO at AMS. I think the one key action that firms can drive gender equality forward with is a really strong mentorship program. Research shows that women with strong mentors are more likely to advance their careers and organizations that have a structured mentorship program. Research shows that there's a 40 percent increase in female leadership with organizations that have this structured program. And I think mentors play such a critical role in your career advancement. They help you build that confidence. There are typically connectors opening doors and opportunities to advance your professional growth and network.And this support also helps women navigate workplace biases. And really help them break through those barriers that may be holding them back and really help them push against that status quo. Yeah, so sharing a story of someone in my career who significantly impacted the advancement of gender equality, that's a really tough question because I have been extremely fortunate to have amazing mentors throughout my career. That includes both men and women that have played a pivotal role in advocating for gender equality whether that was initiating those tough conversations around pay equity gap or addressing gender biases in the workplace. The 1 thing that they all had in common was their willingness to address the problem and really work to showcase the importance of having the conversation, having the difficult conversation and being able to cross those chasms that may occur in various organizations who are not willing to have the conversation and then really just. Advocating for more female leadership. I can't pick out any one individual. But as I said, I think there have been many across my entire career that have just been real trailblazers when it comes to having the gender equality conversation. However, 1 person whose story really stands out for me, and that is the AMS founder and chair Rosaleen Blair. She's actually one of the reasons why I joined AMS She is truly a fearless leader who has been advocating for women since she founded this company in 1996. She, in many ways, has cracked that glass ceiling by being a voice of change for female leaders and entrepreneurs and is truly 1 of those strong voices that is blazing a path forward for the gender equality topic and continues to do.

Amanda: Hi there, I'm Amanda Lindley, and I'm the Director of Business Development at Thompson Coburn. One key action that I think firms can take to drive gender equality forward involves just really making sure women are in positions of leadership. And, not just to check the boxes. I think, we've seen that a lot with folks where they, have that one like token women and leadership, right? But more so making sure that they're included and involved in the processes when, especially when discussing strategic direction of the firm, and just making it like standard. I think that's the other big thing not to the point where I think we all celebrate when a woman gets into a position of leadership and that's still needed at the moment, just because we're still so far behind. But getting to the point where it is we have women in leadership and they're a part of making those decisions for strategic direction. And I do want to note it's really important. And we celebrated a lot on the attorney and partner side. And, firms are, you know, attorney-driven, obviously, but ensuring that there are women with voices on the business professional side is equally important. And so that's, in the C suite and the director and senior director roles. And really, I think also just being really transparent about the paths to leadership for women. And again, that goes for attorneys and business professionals, and it's really cool. I think it's, I think it's been really cool just been in big law to see more CEOs and more COOs that are women than ever before. And it's just creating so many opportunities and things for women to, to strive for. Some people I think in my career who have been really Great and advancing gender equality. At Thompson Coburn in particular, there's been so many incredible women and also men who not only respect but really value the women that they work with. And, one person is our chair. Thompson, Coburn, Chris Hohn, who is just a huge advocate for women and leadership. And I've witnessed so many times firsthand just how much he values the opinions of and leans on all members of our management and executive team, other attorneys that he works with, members of our BD staff, and he just shows so much value of the experience of our women. And then also to that end, I'll point out that we're so fortunate to have three absolute rock star women on our executive committee and Adrienne Clair who is in our D. C. Office, Evan Goldfarb in our St Louis office and Laura Jordan in our St Louis office. And they're just they're so intuitive in their leadership and just and knowing the partnership, it's really impressive. And I want to talk a little bit more about Evan Goldfarb, who is co lead of our firm's entire corporate department and all the practices that fall within that. And, in particular, she's just a really great leader and has, whether intentionally or not, has made just a huge impact on advancing gender equality and women across our firm. She heads up our partner compensation committee too. And I think that what really impresses me about her is that like at a drop of a hat she can tell you so much about all of her partners and there's you know hundreds of them right and the work that they do and I think it's a skill that isn't valued enough in big law and it just shows just how much she cares about digging in and understanding what people do when you know personal things about them and it's really incredible.

Bonelle: I'm Bonelle Martin. I'm Associate Director - Marketing Brand at Baker Botts. I wasn't completely sure of this answer, as there are so many approaches that firms can take. I went straight to my chief diversity and inclusion officer for a discussion. She brought up succession planning, and I think it makes sense for a firm to succession plan clients based on a lawyer's experience, industry knowledge, client understanding, and client needs. In doing so, the client and their work will end up in the right hands. To clarify, a lack of formal process with guidelines and guardrails unintentionally sometimes allows unconscious bias to seep in. Structured succession planning should help remove that bias and opens consideration for a broader pool of candidates that might not have otherwise been considered. Could help with time to drive gender equality forward. This question immediately brought to mind Catherine Zinn, who has been a guest previously. I once witnessed her stand in the middle of a breakout session at a partner conference to convey a story where one of our own lawyers. had disregarded a female lawyer across the table. Catherine has the skill required to deliver the story in a room full of lawyers who may or may not have agreed and present the case. Support the need for change and somehow never alienate a single person in the room. That moment sparked additional constructive conversations during and after the conference. I believe communication skills like these are essential to keep everyone at the table advancing the discussion to truly make an impact in advancing gender equality in the workplace.

Rachel: My name is Rachel Watson. I work for Akin Gump, and I am the Director of Business Development, Client Development, and Campaigns. I would say the biggest thing is making sure that there are all the voices in the room is taking a step back and looking at everybody that's sitting in the room and making sure that there's a variety of experiences. We see this a lot where the rooms become homogenic in whatever way, whether it's, based on gender or based on age or based on anything like that. And we having those additional voices added into the room is helpful. Our chair actually talked about a time when she was younger and was able to be added to like committees and different things like that and brought in things like maternity leave, paternity leave. And really just allowing that variety is probably the biggest step in the right direction. I have a really wonderful CMBDO right now. And I won't praise him too much on this call, but the, one of my first biggest influences in my career was actually a director at cognizant that I worked for which is an IT consulting firm and was one of the few women directors in our entire practice area and one of the things that I really found great with her area was the diversity with which she brought every team. I remember looking around the room and we were sitting in a retailer war room and how every single person in that room look different and came from different places from different countries from different backgrounds. And that was probably one of the most effective projects I've ever sat on because of the variety of experience that we she modeled for all of us and really making sure that the team was. Even though the client wasn't necessarily diverse, that our team was really diverse and was able to bring those into the room. 

Charlie: Creating a lasting impact requires not only programs and policies, but perhaps most critically leadership from the top. Our next group of guests share their insights on why leading by example is essential to driving meaningful change.

Savannah: My name is Savannah Kirk and I'm the Public Relations Coordinator at Jones Walker. So from my experience, being relatively early in my career I think one really practical thing firms can do is hire young talent with a really intentional growth mindset. I truly believe everyone has leadership potential, but I also think a lot of women have to fight for those opportunities. If there's not strong leadership in place that really understands the value of that potential. I think it's important to have conversations early about what opportunities are available for growth down the line. And also provide opportunities, push the boundaries of what they're comfortable with. No one wants to stay entry level forever, but especially for women who in their lives have been told what they can't do or have just been made to feel small, it can be really easy to stay in that comfort zone without those intentional conversations, training and opportunities for leadership. So from my perspective, driving gender equality forward really starts there from the ground up. When I was hired at Jones Walker our former director of PR and Communications, Mary Margaret Gorman, really made a big impact on my understanding of what I could be capable of. I find it sad now that I had such a hard time leaving a prior role where I felt I wasn't really moving forward, but one of the things, the first thing she told me was that she wanted me to know, although she was hiring me for this PR specialist role, that I had so much room to grow and her intention was really to train me as if I could take her job one day. And that was so powerful for me and she really did that. She was not easy on me and I made a lot of mistakes. But any criticism from her was followed by, I know you can do it, try again, be more careful. And I think about that a lot because not everyone has support like that. So I tell that story because I really think that if the world had more people willing and able to invest in young talent like that intentionally, there'd be a lot more women in leadership and one of my goals is to be able to pay that forward. 

Amelia: My name is Amelia Calloway, and I am Director of Marketing and Business Development at Morris Manning & Martin. I really believe that one powerful way firms can drive gender equality is to get involved with programs like Mansfield Certification. When a firm commits to Mansfield, it makes a public promise to foster an environment where women can not only rise to leadership, but also enjoy a balanced life. But the real impact comes, I think, when that commitment goes beyond the certification. Meaning it's nice to talk the talk, but you have to walk the walk. Firms need to take it one step further by implementing robust mentorship programs, clear career pathways, and policies that actively support women's advancement. In other words, the certification is just the start. Delivering on that promise is what matters. I'd love to share a bit about my boss, Kate Pearch. She's been the heart of our firm's women's initiative, always championing our women attorneys and supporting them to take charge of their career development. And I've seen her back this up with real tangible support. In my personal experience, the support and encouragement goes beyond the women attorneys. Kate has always given me the space to try out new ideas and figure out how I can best support the firm. She's pushed me to lean into my strengths and build a role that really suits me. Thanks to her, I've reached milestones I once thought were out of reach. It's been really inspiring to see Kate's growth across the years we've worked together. She's earned a real seat at the table. It's amazing to see our leadership routinely turn to her for insights or advice on handling tough situations. It's a powerful reminder that while it's easy to talk about change, real progress happens when you lead by example. Kate not only talks the talk but walks the walk, embodying the spirit of accelerating action every day.

Kim: Hi, I'm Kim Lansdown. I'm the Director of Strategy and Marketing at Fladgate. I think from my perspective, one of the key things that firms can do to help drive gender equality forwards is to put mentors in place, whether formally or informally, it's ensuring that young women, and not always young women actually, have got the support they need to help them navigate some of the things that worry them. I see it quite a lot in women who are nervous about taking the next step in their career, whether that's taking on a promotion or going for a promotion or even moving to a new job. They're often, they lack the confidence around it and think, will I be any good? Can I do it? I'm not sure I'm up to it. And the answer is always they are up to it. And when they get into the job or move into the role, they realize And sometimes they just need people who can guide them, talk them through it and just give them that bit of bolster of confidence to tackle some of these big questions and some of the smaller ones as well. Unfortunately, I can't give an example of someone who has, I think that might be a function of my age. I'm a bit older, so maybe the culture was slightly different. I come from an advertising background, which is incredibly sexist. And even when women were leading the agency, things didn't really move on and things weren't sorted out in the way that they should be. But that doesn't mean there haven't been lots of smaller things that I've seen where people have been helped. So I think what I learned from thinking about questions is that actually it's not always about the big things or the big significant things, although they can move things on. It's actually about every person in the workplace and that's men as well as women really thinking about these things all the time. As part of their job. There's other things they need to think about, but to call things out when they see them, to make sure women have a seat at the table, where appropriate, they're invited into the room that they're, to her, a good example is making sure that your panels always have women on them. So I think it's the small things that we all can think about every day, champion, championing women and making sure that their presence is felt that can really help. 

Charlie: Fostering a safe space where professionals can bring their authentic selves to work is not just important, but fundamental in promoting equality within the industry. Our final guests each share their insights on how firms can go about this and spotlight the influential figures in their own lives. 

Kelby: Kelby Luther, Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer at Allen Matkins. Being open and honest and talking about it, I think is an easy first step for firms. Throughout my career I've watched women, really strong women struggle with a variety of topics from being in leadership roles to believing they have a voice on important topics and work life balance. And what I've seen work is coaching and mentoring. And that has been super valuable for me throughout my career and having support and guidance from someone in a more senior position as you move through those key stages of your career is a game changer. And I think, being a woman. And a unique and it's a unique and valuable gift, and we have to talk about and normalize being authentic, the self doubt, the guilt, all the things that come with it, and help women find the individual path to success and law firms being willing to look at that and, pivot for each individual and what makes sense for them. My husband he has been my biggest cheerleader and my biggest advocate and supporter, and he has pushed me to do things when I felt like I wasn't ready, and he actually took a step back from his career because I had some opportunities very early on some unique opportunities to move overseas, to work with a law firm we've moved, within the United States for different roles, and Having him be flexible like that and support me has allowed me to grow and build a career that I really envisioned for myself and this started 20 years ago and there was a stigma around it for sure and we got comments, but we just focused on what we wanted, what made us happy and what worked for our family. And we make a good team and it's worked out well for us. 

Ashley: Ashley Horne, and I'm the Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer for Womble Bond Dickinson U. S. Yeah, I think, it's so hard to dwindle this down to just one key action, but I think generally really inserting rigor in performance management. I think so much of gender equality and really ensuring there's parity really comes to performance management and people management at the very crux of it. And that's, having a coach, having a performance manager, really digging deep and unpacking what are the barriers, what are the challenges, what are the opportunities for you? So often we task leaders with such a tough task and hurdle of managing people's careers without kind of the proper coaching for them. So what I've learned, at least in my experience, is this empathetic leadership style and really understanding what drives individuals is really at the heart of parity and equity. And again, just really focusing on performance management. How do we arm, quote unquote, managers and really attorney leaders with being able to help other attorneys really build terrific careers. Yes. I think back to probably my first management role. And I was with KPMG here in the U S and our office managing partner at the time really had a profound, I think, personal effect on my career. And I was, pregnant with my first child of two boys. And I think he made a significant impact in the Atlanta office and then certainly in the southeast and with KPMG U. S. But he did a really terrific job with me personally, it was very daunting for me to have a global leadership type role. And he was able to, really, I think, insert the confidence that I needed and knowing that I could manage both a family and a career and that I could manage. Having a, a team of direct reports and a budget and all the things that come along with the management role. And he knew that managing a family would just make me more efficient and effective as a leader and didn't see that as a roadblock and really was, that quiet voice behind me saying, I know you can do it. And I think so often that's what, individuals need. They just need that quiet coach who really solidifies the confidence that you know, you think you can do it and you just need someone to tell you, you absolutely can do this. And not pointing out the roadblocks, but saying, let's move forward. That's one of my examples. 

Michelle: Hello, I am Michelle Powell, the Senior Manager of Business Development and Marketing at Axinn, Veltrop & Harkrider. Based on my experience, I think one key action firms can take to drive gender equality forward is generously investing time, energy and money into the leadership growth of women at the mid-level. I think providing these mid-level professionals with opportunities to stretch and grow is incredibly important. Strong leaders don't just appear out of thin air, and so if we want diversity of thought and experience at the top, we need a deeper bench of women. I've witnessed multiple cases of burnout of the singular woman put in charge of several administrative roles, and the intention of instituting gender equity in the leading ranks is in the right place, but women can end up with more work and feel compelled to stay in administrative leadership roles longer than their male peers, often because there aren't many other women who have received the necessary level of mentorship to share that burden. It's really challenging for me to choose a singular person in my career who has had a significant impact on advancing gender equality, because in my personal career, the most significant impact has been made by The group of women I went to UCLA undergrad with. We all pursue different industries, legal, tech, finance, social work, medicine, entertainment, but we've all managed to progress through the ranks together by fostering a culture of generous information sharing and support. We're very open with one another about our salaries and negotiation tactics. We're going to be doing this in advance of new opportunities will review each other's value propositions and provide interview prep, and we began doing this with the younger women in our network as well, and it's obviously not a revolutionary idea, but something that has traditionally been much more common in men's social groups than in women's, and I truly believe the best way to achieve a quality at the top is to provide a helping hand to women both laterally but also to those coming up behind you.

Heather: Heather Reid, Miles & Stockbridge. Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer. As I like to do with any kind of problem I see at the law firm is try to break it down into smaller steps. I never try to look for one kind of silver bullet that solves the problem. I think that's hard to do. So I, a lot of my teammates will share that. I like to say a lot, the small steps really lead to big impact. So one of those small steps that I try to do, and I think firms can do, and some firms do very well, is to create safe spaces for their female colleagues and that can look different across the firm. For my team, it is definitely an area where you can come together, share your positive and negative feedback and experiences, learn from each other and just know that there's no repercussions that we're all in this together and how can we help each other navigate both the workplace and at home. So creating that safe space is a small step that you can do to create an environment that is conducive for conversations on how we can get better and how we can learn from each other and how we can create an environment where all voices are heard. Barriers are taken down and people feel comfortable having these conversations. That's the first step is are we comfortable even having these conversations? So as I reflect on my career, there's, I'm very fortunate that there's a lot of examples of people that have crossed my path that have both men and women who have promoted gender equality. I can talk about in particular, Barbara Taylor, who was the CMO at DLA Piper, who actually gave me the first experience of a safe space in a work environment which, again, I think is super critical and opening up the doors for conversations around what gender equality looks like. She was able to develop a workforce that was diverse across, sexual orientation, gender, color, religion, everything. And it was because of the safe space. I hadn't even heard that word before, before working with her, but it was an environment where we all felt safe to be who we are authentically. And it made it for such an incredible team. We are still friends to this day. We marched in the Women's March in DC years ago. And I do look to her as being a leader for me in setting the example of promoting gender equality in the law firm. 

Charlie: On that note, we'll wrap up this very special episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS and a huge thanks to all of our amazing guests for joining us and sharing their stories. You can follow the Passle CMO Series wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.