In this special Thanksgiving edition of the CMO Series Podcast, we bring together an inspiring group of legal marketing professionals to reflect on the people and experiences that have shaped their careers.
From the mentors who instilled the value of continuous learning to the strategies that help achieve work-life balance, our guests share heartfelt gratitude, invaluable advice, and insights into building resilience and thriving in the industry.
Featured Guests
- Beth Huffman - Director of Marketing, Nelson Mullins Riley & Scarborough
- Angela Petros - Global Chief Marketing Officer, Baker McKenzie
- Karen Morton - Chief Marketing Officer, Cleary Gottlieb
- Lauren Mistretta - Chief Communications Officer, DLA Piper US
- Rachael Schilling - Marketing & Client Services Director, Liscow & Lewis
- Carrie Hanna - Chief Strategy Officer, Gunster
- Johnyne Garcia - Head of Clients & Markets, Dentons US
- Sivan Galinsky - Chief Marketing Officer, Barack Ferrazzano Kirschbaum & Nagelberg
- Lisa Simon - Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer, Holland & Hart
- Tiffany Zeigler - Chief Marketing Officer, Polsinelli
- Heather Morse - Chief Business Development Officer, McGlinchey Stafford
Thank you to all our guests for sharing their gratitude, wisdom, and experiences.
Stay tuned for part two, where more industry leaders join us to discuss their inspirations and the value of being bold in legal marketing.
Transcription
Charlie: Welcome to part one of our special Thanksgiving edition of the CMO Series podcast. In the spirit of gratitude, we've connected with friends across the legal marketing industry to reflect on the influential figures who have shaped their careers. They give thanks to the folks they're currently collaborating with and share words of wisdom for those coming up in the industry. Joining us first is a remarkable group of guests, here to express heartfelt gratitude to the individuals who have profoundly influenced their career journeys. They delved into the power of lifelong learning and shared invaluable wisdom they've gained along the way.
Beth: My name is Beth Huffman. I am the Director of Marketing at Nelson Mullins, Riley & Scarborough. So looking back on my career, which expands 40 plus years, it even goes back further than that because I was born to a lawyer. And I really didn't enter the legal workforce working for a law firm until about two decades ago. And my first job at a law firm was Dechert. Dechert's chairman was Bart Winokur. Bart had a reputation for being tough, but I have to tell you, he made a world of difference in me. I had not been there about two weeks. I was at that time the head of public relations and Bart came to me and said, I'd like that you send me these opportunities, but here's what I want from you. Tell me what you think of the opportunity and more importantly, why? I will come back to you and tell you what I think, but I want to know what you think. And I was so appreciative that he valued my opinion and that we could have a discourse on the mostly media opportunities. We were usually on the same page, but he was just so insightful. And he really helped me learn in particularly the communication side of legal marketing, the question of should we do it, not can we do it? And what do we want to say that makes a difference for the law firm? So I really think that in helping me build my career, Bart was hugely influential. I think I would like to give a shout out at this time where we need to give thanks to some very special people. The other thing I have learned over my career is one person can make a difference, but one person cannot do it all. I have a small team, but they are just so dedicated. I think of them as the little engine that could. We work as one, and we work as one not just with my internal team, but I have some very valuable partners, whether it's people who are the technical side of my website, the people who run my store, my webmasters, my external thought leadership help, the people who have helped me do all the submissions that have been due this month. I think that they form a greater team. So my internal team works so well with our external vendors that they make what I do possible. And it's all of us who are making a difference this time. If I could give one bit of advice to people either starting their career in the legal industry or trying to grow their career, it's that they need to listen and learn. One of the things I did very early, and I came from a family of lawyers and had probably more experience with the legal industry than most people,but I went to every CLE that I could. I went to presentations by my lawyers. I read everything I could that came out every day from various legal sources. I learned the industry. I learned the players. I understood the terminology. And that all came from just listening and learning over and over the years.
Angela: I'm Angela Petros. I am the global CMO at Baker McKenzie, based in New York. I've had many great bosses and sponsors. But if I'm forced to pick one, I would pick Andy Prozes, who was the CEO of LexisNexis, who hired me almost 20 years ago in the global strategy function at LexisNexis. And he gave me the opportunity to run global strategy and then added me to the executive committee. It was a really exciting time at Lexis because we were acquiring a bunch of technology companies and building out our Asia strategy. So it was an amazing time and I learned a lot. Andy then gave me another opportunity to run marketing for all of the software businesses that we'd acquired. It was my very first marketing role and really was the pivot point in my career where I started Transform from being a lawyer and a strategy consultant to a marketer. So I'm just really grateful for his support, his belief in me, his willingness to take a chance on me and then sort of mentor me as I grew in my career. So in terms of a person who deserves a special shout out this Thanksgiving, I'd really love to shout out the entire marketing and business development team here at Baker McKenzie. I have been in my role just over a year and Baker, as many people know, is a really, really big firm. We have over 6,000 lawyers. We're in 45 countries. We have 74 offices. So it takes a village to be able to deliver great marketing and business development support across all of our offices. We've just completed our annual meeting in Chicago and our entire team stepped up to deliver just a fantastic meeting for the firm. So I'd like to thank the entire team for their tireless efforts over the last few months. And for those of them in the US, wish them a very happy Thanksgiving. My one piece of advice to share with others in similar positions and in legal marketing in general is to keep your skills sharp. Our markets are constantly evolving. Our clients' expectations are changing. And technology is really transforming the way we work. So I would just sort of say, you know, make sure you take the time to invest in yourself. Trying to do something that grows your set of skills at least once a quarter. So just take that time to network, to learn. I often find it really helpful to get exposed to other marketers, B2B marketers that are not in the legal field, to understand what they're doing and think about how that might apply in the legal context.
Karen: I'm Karen Morton, Chief Marketing Officer at Cleary Gottlieb. I'm also the president-elect for the Legal Marketing Association in Europe. So looking back on my career, a key figure for me and somebody who I think has really shaped. My career over the past few years is Deborah Ruffins. She was my boss at Hogan Lovells for a while. And I'd say she was the one that really pushed me out my comfort zone, but made sure I knew I had a safe space when I was being challenged and pushed. She always had my back, but she would really challenge me to think about things differently, do things differently. In addition she was a great role model as a working mum and so being able to step into a CMO role with people like Deb and others leading the way in that regard was hugely inspirational for me so I'd say Deb Ruffins. So I'm hugely grateful to work at Cleary Gottlieb which is a very collaborative culture. So I collaborate with people from across the firm, around the world on a daily basis. And that's something that I don't take for granted. However, today, I want to give a shout out to the founding members and the continuing members of the LMA Europe Regional Board. A few of us got together in lockdown to talk about creating the Europe region for the Legal Marketing Association, which is obviously very well known in the US, but it was not well known in Europe. So, in particular, Sadie Baron, Kerry Vermeylen, Jon Brewer, Peter Skinner, Alison Cox, there are many others. They know who they are, and it includes the board that we have today. But what I appreciate from that group is that, in particular, they're all really focused on collectively elevating the legal marketing profession in Europe. And so currently we're working together to develop the programme for our first regional conference that's going to take place next July. And that's been a great experience working with the team that I've mentioned, but many, many others to see LMA Europe coming to light. So I think one piece of advice I would share with others is that, you know, as we know, there are never going to be any more hours in the day or days in the week. So really think about the return on investment of everything you do. What is going to add the most value to the organisation and try to stay focused on those things? I know it sounds easy to say, it's not easy to do, but that genuinely is what makes the most difference.
Lauren: My name is Lauren Mistretta. I am the Chief Communications Officer at DLA Piper U.S. When I look back on my career, there really hasn't been one person that I'm grateful for. There are many people that I'm grateful for. I have had the benefit of having mentors and advocates my entire career, and it even goes before I started my career back to when I was a teenager. I had a family friend who was a chief executive at a publishing company who gave me internship opportunities throughout my college years, which led me to my first job. And every single job that I've had, I would say that I have had bosses and mentors and advocates that have guided me and given me advice and provided me with connections that have been invaluable to me as a leader in my field now. I will always talk to people that are connected to me. I will always talk to anyone that reaches out and wants advice and wants to just talk or spitball or, you know, discuss their career aspirations. My general philosophy is that I want to pay it forward as others paid it forward to me. And I would also encourage the people that I'm talking to as they grow and develop in their career to do the same thing. So this Thanksgiving, there is not one person that deserves a shout out from me. There are so many people and essentially it is my team. I know it might sound trite to say that I'm so grateful for my full team, but I truly am. I have a group of individuals that are so collaborative and so invested in their roles and so caring and concerned about the work that they do for our team and for our clients on a daily basis that I couldn't thank one person. I have to thank so many people. A very recent example is I have just come off having COVID, and it came on very quick, and I felt terrible, and I was really down for the count, and I had to clear my calendar really quickly for a couple of days because I simply couldn't work. And each of my leaders and direct reports stepped up and like stepped in so quickly and said, do not worry about it. We've got it covered. Turn your computer off, get the rest you need. Take as much time as you need. Nothing will fall through the cracks and that is entirely what happened. And for that, I'm so grateful. I had to share a piece of advice. Just one thing, it would be to never stop learning. As we've seen technology develop, as we've seen social media and our digital channels expand and develop with the proliferation of AI, it has become really clear to me that you have to keep up with these technologies. You have to keep learning about advancements in your field for your own personal development and also for the personal growth and development of the people on your team and for your clients.
Rachael: I'm Rachael Schilling. I am the Marketing and Client Services Director for Liskow, which is a law firm in Louisiana and Texas. I have been very lucky to have a mentor who has really impacted and just made my career journey more meaningful. Amy Harang, who I work with at Liskow, she's our HR director, and I've had the pleasure of working with her for 10 years now. She's just someone that. Gives a lot and takes very little. And by that, I mean, she's always willing to give me advice and guidance and both personally and professionally.She's never afraid to give me her honest feedback too, which I think is really important because I think it's kind of rare that you find someone who is willing to give you honest feedback, but also cares about the way that they deliver that feedback too. In addition to the great feedback that she always provides is just the confidence that she's given me to, you know, try new things and be open and flexible in my career. She's just been a great sounding board and someone that I'm incredibly thankful to know and work with. So I'm incredibly grateful for her and, you know, my hope is that everyone has someone like Amy in their life. I have an awesome team that every single day I feel incredibly grateful for. I've been through, sort of our team has just been through so much together, so many changes and new initiatives. We went through a full rebrand together.We redesigned, we did a full overhaul of a website with that rebrand. We've built a business development, formal training program. We launched our firm's client feedback interview program, implemented industry groups. We've went through lots of sort of technical issues.Technology integrations and implemented new systems and processes.And so we've just done so much together. And I'm so fortunate for them and grateful that even with all of these changes and new projects and new things sort of put on them, they always still show up. And they're always willing to learn and grow and try new things. And they just keep me excited about what we're doing.And I'm just grateful for them. So if I could share one piece of advice, I think it would be to be curious. I think it helps with a lot of things. One, it really does open your eyes. And for some background, I kind of had this shift in my mindset to be more curious maybe two years ago. And it really made a difference for me.It opens your eyes to new things. You sort of discover new passions or interests that you may not have discovered otherwise. And it helps with being more like innovative and creative because when you're curious, it exposes you to sort of diverse ideas and perspectives. In addition to that, I think it makes the communication that you have with other people more meaningful. When you're curious, it leads you to ask, I think, more thoughtful questions, which just helps you have better conversations and be more engaged and intentional in your communications, which helps build better professional relationships.Achieving a healthy work-life balance is often easily said than done.Our next group of guests share their gratitude and unveil their strategies for self-care, along with tips on how to avoid taking work matters to heart.
Carrie: Hi, I'm Carrie Hanna. I'm the Chief Strategy Officer for Gunster. And in my role, I focus on our key strategic initiatives with our firm leadership. I love this question about who has inspired me and who's impacted my journey. And I have to say that there are two people that come to mind.The first person is my dear friend, Ed Tanzer, who unfortunately is no longer with us.We lost Ed during COVID, but he came to Gunster and really served in the role as a business development partner.He became very much a partner for me in the process. We worked very closely together. And he was a real advocate for me in my role and in my journey.And he mentored in a way that was just not obvious, which is something I realized obviously after he was gone.But he taught me by doing it.He taught by example. He taught by including people. And it was something that I got to see happen live.And then I just carried it with me. Ed was, he was also a connector of people and always with the idea of trying to help them. And in his absence and in his passing, it's something that has actually turned over to me in a way that I now, on almost a weekly basis, Somebody's asking for help. Somebody's asking for, you know, a connection to help them, whether it's for business or for their kids or for something personal or for whatever the case is. So almost every week I have this like Ed moment where I'm now in charge of connecting two people together and, you know, seeing what happens.So he was just one of those people that really inspired me, mentored me.The other one is somebody who was early in my career.His name is Paul Cortnell. He's a retired partner from Gunster. And he and I worked together to launch his practice on a national scale,which was the leisure and resource practice for Gunster.Paul was an out-of-the-box thinker. He was innovative and ahead of his time as an attorney.And as a result, we were doing really big strategic work for a law firm in the early to mid-1990s before law firms were really doing that kind of work and thinking. And so I learned a lot from Paul, and he opened up just a door of many, many doors of opportunity for me as I built my career.And we got to sort of practice some of the strategic planning together and build it for Gunster in a way that was very meaningful and successful. I have two people who are, I just really enjoy their partnership. The first one is John Frisch, and he was introduced to me by the second person, which is Tara Weintritt.So Tara's with the Wicker Park Group, and John Frisch is with Shawan Leadership. Tara introduced me to John, and John and I have been working together now for three and a half years on leadership programs at Gunster. And then Tara Weintritt from the Wicker Park Group, she's like a soul sister to me. She and I almost finish each other's sentences. She's such a great partner. We've done client feedback work together, and now we're going to be working together on some of the implementation of our strategic plan that's very client-focused. I can't think of a better person to be doing that with than Tara. There's so many lessons you learn along the way as a chief strategy officer, and you become very resilient because of the work that you do, the people that you work with, and the idea that you don't always—like not all your ideas are going to go forward. So I always try to think of the fact that you just can't take things too personally, that as long as you're really approaching your role with integrity and knowing that you're bringing good ideas, but also great listening to the process of your daily job and your role, that's really what matters.You know, not every idea you have to bring forward is going to fly. And it may not fly for a lot of reasons.We deal with a lot of opinionated people. They're lawyers. They've got strong opinions, strong personalities, big egos.And as part of just being a CMO or a CSO, it's important to listen to what their thoughts are, understand how timing works, and know that if there's something you'd like to do or accomplish that isn't going to happen, just not to take it personally.
Johnyne: I am Johnyne Garcia. I am head of clients and markets for Dentons, US.So it's hard for me to name just one person. I have been really fortunate to have a number of mentors throughout my career.And more importantly, people who believed in me when I sometimes didn't believe in myself. I can't name one person because I lead a team. I am really thankful for my entire team. There is absolutely nothing that I could do without them.What we do is truly a team sport, and I'm so thankful that they bring the best of themselves to work every day. I'm fortunate that I get to work with each and every one of them. Be kind to yourself. What we do is complex, and we're probably not going to get it right every single time.
Sivan: Hi, I'm Sivan Galinsky. I'm the chief marketing officer at Barack Ferrazzano.I've had many great bosses over the course of my career. I can honestly say that one particular boss really stands out as being extremely influential for me.She was also my boss during a time of significant growth and development for me, both personally and professionally. My former boss, when I was at Foley, Mayumi Willie, had an amazing way of helping me grow, both when it came to understanding the areas of law in which our portfolio specialized, but also when it came to the marketing and business development.And management skills I was relatively newer to at the time.She was also an incredibly supportive boss when it came to work-life balance, even at a large law firm.She supported me through having my first child when I was on her team, and she often put in the extra effort herself to allow me and the other team members to get away from the office and have a life outside of work, even when the work kept coming.I'm particularly grateful this Thanksgiving to be collaborating with our firm's new chief operating officer, Sherry Gini.She joined our firm about six months ago, and it has been a wonderful opportunity to get to know both her personally and work closely with her on a number of exciting initiatives for our firm.I would say work hard, be kind, and take care of others, but also never forget to take care of yourself. We've all heard that famous phrase, put on your oxygen mask first.I think I'm finally getting to that stage of life where that is becoming more important and relevant instead of just something I aspire to do later in life.I don't just hope to find the time anymore. I aspire to make sure the time exists and is prioritized.
Lisa: Lisa Simon, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Holland and Hart. The first person that comes to mind is a managing partner that I used to work with at a prior firm, Bruce James, who was the managing partner at Brownstein. He was new into his role, and he hired me. And so I was new in that role. And we just learned to trust our guts together to try things that neither one of us had tried before.He just gave me a lot of confidence and trusted me to do my job, and it made a huge difference in my career.I think it's a big part of the reason that I am where I am. And it was just an incredibly good experience.I think right now, I would say my whole team at Holland and Hart, because we're navigating each other together and trying some new things.I'm trying to gain their trust and their grace as we work on a realignment with the department.Find the mute button for the voice that tells you you don't know what you're doing.The one that contributes to imposter syndrome. That said, I think there can be a voice that says, you should really go back and check that before you move forward. Like, understand the difference between that voice and the voice that tells you you don't know what you're doing because that's the one that's creating that imposter syndrome.Hit the mute button on that one. I do have a second one, though. It's a piece of advice that Jim Durham gave me and probably gave a lot of us early on in this industry, and that was:"Give them what they want so you can give them what they need." And I see that rule apply over and over and over again. I see the consequences for people who don't heed that advice.And if you try and do too much without being able to execute on the little things, you're not going to get to do the big things.And it's just, it's so valuable to think about that, especially when you're starting new relationships and new jobs. It's vital.
Tiffany: Tiffany Zeigler, CMO, Polsinelli. The most important person was our former COO at Alston & Bird. His name was Jamie Hutchinson, and he was always a believer in me and my ability to be able to get things done and persevere. And so I always appreciated him pushing me beyond my limits.My senior marketing and business development team is fantastic. We are a newer team that has just recently really come together, but Audrey Miller, Allison Lavelle, Tara Derby, Meg Victor, and Kersten Hunt, we collaborate weekly.We work really hard at trying to create a team that has no sharp elbows, no toxicity, and everybody can bring their own true self to the table at every meeting. We can disagree with each other. We can bring up opposing point of views, and then we can get to a really good answer and keep all of us on track and moving ahead. So the biggest piece of advice that I've been really leaning heavily on lately is to not get defensive. I think sometimes we don't even realize we're getting defensive, but it can creep up in the tone that we might respond to something or with how we might lead to excuse an action or excuse an idea or thought that we put forward.And in reality, most of us are pretty thoughtful, and we are doing whatever we are doing or we've made the decision we've made because of our experiences, because of what we might have perceived the situation to be. And so trusting in that and not being defensive, I think it's a very powerful tool for leaders in the legal industry.
Heather: Hi, I'm Heather Morse. I'm the Chief Business Development Officer for McGlinchey Stafford. Now, I could think of two people when I really kind of went back and thought about it. And early in my career, Nathalie Daum was incredibly helpful getting me into leadership with LMA, the Legal Marketing Association. I had run for the board, I was declined for the board, and she really mentored me and the things that I needed to do to raise my profile so that I could become a board member for LMA. And I was able to do that the next year. So I was really excited about that. And then, you know, fast forward 20 years, had a conversation with Ross Fishman at an LMA conference at the end of it. And he said something to me that really got me thinking, and that was, Heather, he's like, I know you. I know what you do. He's like, and I know you do it very well. He's like, but I don't know how to describe you. And what he was talking about is my brand was just all over the place. He's like, I know you know a lot of things, but what's your brand?And it really got me thinking about what it is that I want to be known for. And I took time. I thought about it. And it really allowed me to refocus, not just my career, but how I present myself on social media, how I present myself in different situations, what I write on, what I share on, what I speak on. And it just was a really impactful moment to have him give me that just hard advice of, I don't know what it is that you do. I know what you do, but I don't know what you do. You know, really, externally, it's our PR team over at Fury Arubal. Gina Arubal and her team are just incredible partners with us. They help us through not only, you know, helping to raise the profile of the firm, but really just when it comes to having strategic conversations, people who really understand the firm, understand our attorneys, who can give us advice, who can help vet opportunities. I mean, just, you know, having that level of a connection with your outside vendors is just, you know, and I hate calling them vendors because they really, truly are partners. They're an extension of our department. It's just an incredible thing to have. And working with, you know, Gina, her team has just been an incredible joy and just a huge benefit to, you know, everyone at the firm. You know, first of all, I mean, something I tell people all the time, you will never be rewarded for not taking lunch. Your PTO vacations, no one is ever going to reward you at the end of the year and say, thank you so much for working when you were sick. Thank you so much for skipping X event.No one will ever reward you for it. So please don't feel guilty for taking your time and making sure that you are present in your life and getting in that mental health or that vacation, you know, doing those things that are important for you.So please don't ever feel guilty for doing that. I think is really, really important. You really have to market yourself. And early on in my career, that was really about marketing me personally and making sure that the attorneys, the people on my team, my boss, that people knew what it was that I did and that they knew the value I added. But you have to market yourself. You cannot sit and wait for somebody to notice that you did a good job. And now later in my career, you know, I've been doing this for close to 30 years now. It's the same thing for my team. And so I make sure that I am out there advocating for my team and marketing my team within the law firm, with our partners, with our management team, so that they know what it is that we do.It's easy for people to know that we're busy, but not really understand what we do and the amount of time and effort it takes to roll out a new newsletter, to put on a, you know, a 300-person conference. You know, it can seem very mysterious what the marketing and business development team do.And I like to take that mystery away and make sure that I am marketing my team as much as I market the firm.
Charlie: A big thank you to all of our guests for joining this first part of our CMO series Thanksgiving special. Stay tuned for the next installment where more CMO friends join us to discuss their biggest inspirations and the importance of being bold and building respect in legal marketing. Thanks for listening. And don't forget to subscribe to the Passle CMO Series podcast on the favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. See you next time.